A more personal episode today. We delve into an issue that arose with someone Stephen knows and the bigger topic of how we deal with those on the spectrum. And that isn’t the cable company.

Overcoming Negativity and Embracing Diversity The speaker shares his perspective on dealing with criticism, particularly about a man who has stated many times he has Asperger’s but was faced with unfounded criticisms based on a lack of understanding. He also began to share a personal story of his first wife, who took their children to a women’s shelter after they split up. 00:00 Introduction 00:00 The Art of Rebuilding 00:14 Embracing Diversity and Understanding 00:19 The Unseen Struggles of Public Figures 00:34 The Cancel Culture Phenomenon 00:54 Personal Revelations




[00:00:00] You all

Alan: set? I think I am. Yes. Let me just get as usual, I try to turn off everything, but what we’re doing so that any net or computer exposure. Let’s see.

I don’t that’s

Stephen: okay. Yes. Yeah. The unfairness is I was talking to somebody The other day with Spectrum just like me, and they’re like, oh, yeah. They finally upgraded me above 1 gig above just fiber levels.

I’m like, Shut up. I’m like, why? What do you have? And I’m like, I’m lucky if I get 350 megabits a second. That’s like I’m paying the most I can to get just that much. I’m like, it’s ridiculous.

Alan: Yeah. I’ve been with AT and T with for with fiber with Fios for a while and just saw that Verizon is now offering 2 gig fiber, and I have no loyalty. You know what I mean?

AT and T has been just fine, and I guess I might stick with them because they also give me 1 of those things, maybe free HBO or something like that. But I already use Verizon for our [00:01:00] cell phones and stuff like that. So having it be all in 1 bundle, don’t know if I get a bundling price. And I don’t know. Am I gonna make a decision on my Internet connection speed based on, oh, I get 1 more channel.

Do you know what

Stephen: I mean? At this the good news is it’s only 10 dollars a month For only 3 months, but then after that, it goes up to twice as much. They jump they

Alan: every trick they can find. You know what?

That I don’t know. This is gonna be an ongoing subject of conversation that there’s no true capitalism left in this country where it’s you get all the information you need to compare between parties based on price and utility and all and make a choice. That instead, everything they possibly can do to obscure things, to make it through tying agreements you’re straight out of like antitrust legislation from the early twentieth century, every company is trying to do what they can to make it that you don’t have true mobility when you wanna change to another provider, true full information when you everything I’ve been doing with travel [00:02:00] lately. And I are now retired.

We’re looking forward to all kinds of fun travel. What a swamp the world of travel aggregators has become that they’re the first ones that came out, probably Kayak or Priceline, were all about, hey, consumer. We’re gonna do all this negotiation so that you’ll get the best price. And then as they got acquired by other places or where they started to make deals behind the scenes, you found out that, no, you’re seeing better prices for a certain airline because they’ve got they’re kinda like a car dealer where they’re gonna push, yeah, I don’t know, more of a certain brand because the salesman gets a little spliff, a hundred dollars for selling you out. And I’m seeing evidence of that everywhere that I go now.

And then it’s not get you a good price on the airfare. It’s that once they have you, then it’s all the add ons, then it’s all the we can make money off of offering you a hotel or a car or a spa trip or whatever else it might be. It’s all the sneakiness, and it’s all not 1 big sheet where you can compare between the things. There’s all the things where this [00:03:00] includes that, but this doesn’t include that but includes another thing. And you just kinda I’m gonna do the best I can and then stop looking because then it’s gone.

You say, oh, the price just fell by, 10 dollars, 80 dollars, whatever else it might be. And some places offer that as a service that you have price protection, but the initial price is higher. So then you’re the risk that they take on for how they’re gonna see fuel costs go up or personnel costs or whatever. Now you’re sharing that risk. It’s everywhere.

It’s every freaking where.

Stephen: All I’m going to say is 2 words, Black Friday.

Alan: Maybe that’s why people get so desperate because that’s 1 of the few times where I’m really here, and I see that thing in front of me for this price, and they’re hoping that it’s not a broken 1 that they reboxed or what there’s all kinds of things that Only

Stephen: 50 dollars for this TV. That’s normally 1200.

Of course, we only have 1 in the entire store, and our employees kept it back for themselves anyway. Hey. You know what I mean?

Alan: That’s it’s kinda funny. Once in a while, I [00:04:00] post a little thing as a real triumph.

I just have a silly post. I like long sleeve T shirts, and my wife had been finding them at a local store, Marks, where she was getting them they were, like, slightly irregular. They were, like, 3 or 5 bucks. And the concert T shirts and things like that nowadays, they go for 25, 30 bucks.

Stephen: Oh, they’re, like, up to 35 40.

Alan: Yeah, logo less, but fits me well. And if anything, already I’m a tough fit because I’m big guy. I’m on a moose size. So if you’re looking for 3 x, automatically, you’re getting that even on regular sites. They’ll juice it a little bit, an extra buck, because it doesn’t cost them more to produce that, but they have to keep different numbers in inventory compared to standard medium for America, that kind of stuff.

So having said that, she found great quality t shirts, not irregulars, but real ones, variety of colors for 8 bucks a pop. And it’s Gildan, which I’m pretty sure is a Chinese company. But there didn’t seem to be any they’re this cheap, and then they get you on the shipping and handling. Then they it [00:05:00] really seemed to just be a deal. And in the tech field, often you’ll find that you really can compare between all the different hard drives that are out there and who’s got good ratings.

And then you go to a place in Amazon or whatever else B and H photo for whatever reason, 1 of those you know, there’s certain vendors that have just become known for. Wow. They really play the game fair. And so I can find that new monitor, new hard drive, whatever else it might be, and be satisfied that I didn’t get rooked somehow. But that’s not you would think in this era of you should be able to fight it all out on the net, there’d be certain players that’s that’s their competitive advantage.

I know a great guy named Gary who was owned a consulting firm that was adjacent to what I was doing. And he often said, you know what, my competitive advantage is? Just tell him the truth. Just if I say yes, I do yes. I don’t do no.

And it’s amazing even in his field. How much chicanery, how much loss [00:06:00] leader, you show a good guy, but then you supply a different 1. You the negotiating tactics were I’m not gonna negotiate based on what’s the characteristics of this person and what they’re worth hey. If I give you some Bulls tickets, this was in Chicago, cut me a deal. Oh my god.

It just was never ending, the stories that he had of the kind of competition that he had to deal with that wasn’t anything to do on What’s the value of the thing I’m offering, and is it at a fair price?

Stephen: I’ve seen it with companies, where I’m like, look. This is this big of a project. It’s gonna take this much or even I’m working with this API PI that I’ve not worked with before, I can figure it out. I’ve done it before.

That’s how tech happens. But I don’t know it at the moment, so I don’t know if it’s gonna be a week project or a 3 week Project. They you know? Yeah.

I’m just telling you. Oh this other guy said that they can do all of this And get it done in 3 days and blah blah blah. And they’re you know, can you beat that price? Give me a little bit to look because I gotta try and figure out what my time’s [00:07:00] gonna be. We don’t have that time.

We’ll go with this guy. Months later, hey. Are you still willing to do that? Because we’ve spent months with this guy that lied to us That doesn’t know what he’s doing. And it’s yeah.

Alan: I had quite a career in Chicago, not only doing interesting projects that were new, but fixing things that other people had screwed up, maybe even fraudulently said they could do when they couldn’t. You know what I mean? There really is something about people of quality will rise to the surface, but there’s it’s so easy to provide disinformation nowadays, it takes a while to have that done.

And often, then they’re, like, they’re desperate or they’re angry or the funds for that year have been exhausted. And, I just I have always tried to be there you know, I think I’ve mentioned the repairman jack books by f Paul Wilson. And a mantra of his is, give value for value. If I’m gonna do this service for you, I’m gonna get paid fairly what it’s worth.

And it might be that you don’t wanna pay that much, and then you get to go check the rest of the market and see who’s gonna [00:08:00] mess with you, fool with you, actively hold you hold it against you that you’re desperate. And in that case, I don’t know if I call it a competitive advantage, but it just was how many people seemed as me as if I’m a superhero came back to him because he was the guy with integrity that they didn’t oh 0, yeah. It there it is worth sometimes, I tend to be relatively agnostic about, price. I will go everywhere, anywhere to get the right deal.

But when you see that in a place like car repairs that there really are a whole bunch of fly by night places and there are people that they have by their work. I tend to be less price sensitive and more about, really, I can call Rob, and he will take care of this for me. And I don’t want to stray and spend a certain amount of time finding out once again that I’ve been disappointed. After a while, you’re just like, as long as Ron is there Ron’s the guy in charge of this project. If Ron’s taking care of me, I’m willing he’s my competitive advantage

Stephen: in fighting.

That’s a rare thought today, though. And as far as car [00:09:00] repairs go, if you wanna use your buddy who knows what he’s doing or the auto mechanic that’ll give you a great deal, Go watch some of the videos online of cars that have gone into mechanics and the problems they’ve had. When I had my BMW, my cousin kept saying, oh, I’ll help you Change of brakes? I’ve done that before. I said, have you done it in a BMW?

Oh, no. It’s just brakes. No. It’s not. You don’t even know what You don’t know.

And I would be just as stupid to let you do that because I would end up with problems. Because, you’re when you get that type of car, You’re buying into the I’m kinda stuck with their repairs and their stuff because it’s certain ways, but it’s not because they’re, Yes. I arguably, part some of it is because they wanna lock you in, and they wanted to get that extra money. I agree with that. But it’s also the car drives amazing, and the reason it drives amazing is because they have everything exactly how they want it.

It’s very Apple like In that regard. You can tune

Alan: it for best performers, but they have to know what they’re doing to get to there. You know what [00:10:00] I mean? Apple has often compared itself to BMW that willing to pay a little more money.

You’ll get a much better experience. And there are some people that they won’t pay 10 percent more to get something twice as good. They just won’t pay 10 percent more no matter what. They want the and not inexpensive, then it’s cheap.

Then it’s you know what I mean? There’s a difference between why something is a lower price or not. And I’ll also say this. This is kinda sad.

So we Ron, I said, Conrad’s. He they’re all over to the Cleveland area. I did not know them before coming from Chicago. So it’s like wonderful, Colleen, that you had this good relationship.

And then, unfortunately, after 1 pretty standard stuff, they forgot to put the oil cap back on. And she was a couple miles down the road, oil light goes off. And the thing was nothing got damaged physically but what got damaged was I just wanted to depend on you guys and know that you always do the right thing. But you’re not perfect. 1 of your technicians was lazy unthinking, whatever happened, but that’s a terrible you can put somebody in a bad situation.

Thank god it was only oil. What [00:11:00] if it was breaks? What if it was like, I just they stole my wow. I don’t have to resolve this problem each time.

Stephen: I got constantly in the What was the consequences?

What ended up happening? What’d she do? What’d they do? She called

Alan: Conrad’s. They said, know, you should be able to make it back.

In other words, the car wasn’t seizing up. It wasn’t no oil, and it wasn’t leaking out. It was like whatever could slosh out. And it’s kinda funny.

The light didn’t immediately go on, but somehow oil was getting out, as well, it gets hot. It I don’t think it boils out, but just from driving, it wasn’t the and I would have thought you would have a little sensor that right when you turn the car, and it would have said, oil cap is ajar. Yeah.


Stephen: plastic. You can’t detect plastic easily. Yeah.

Alan: Luckily, she was able to go back, and they, of course, check the oil level, make sure it was okay, put the cap on. You know what I mean?

Because it was not with her. It was there. They had to plug in the oil cap, and it was like, just I think it was even on the ground. It was, like, sitting over where he had put it and etcetera. So they really fell all over [00:12:00] themselves to make it right.

And it’s kinda funny. It’s I don’t know that we really do this, but Conrad’s has been good to us in lots of different ways. They do price matching. So when I find tires online or at Costco or something like that, if I can have them either done by them or delivered to there, they will still do them. We I read continually from consumer reports that independent car repair places are almost always just as competent depending on what they specialize in and lesser price and so forth.

And that going back to a dealer is the worst thing you can do, and then going to chain type places is the second worst. And so we’ve occasionally done that. When you get your for the first 30000 miles under warranty, you get into the habit of taking it back, in our case, to the Toyota dealer because we have Prius seats. When you get to that 30000 in 1 point, you’re like, okay. Where am I gonna go now?

And at 1 point, for instance, we had cars old enough by Infiniti that it needed a new muffler, and I took it to the Infiniti dealer. And, [00:13:00] honestly, it was, like, a thousand dollars. That’s not what a muffler cost, but they had it where replace that. Your ref replaced the entire, not combustion, exhaust system, let’s call it. Right?

And so it’s I don’t think all that’s rotted out. It’s just the muffler. So they have a place called, literally, Affordable Muffler that’s right on Detroit. And it’s 1 of those places where they can get the correct parts, but they don’t take it all off. They literally like they got the guys with the torches that’ll cut this off, put this in place, weld it on, and it had it lasted all the rest of the life of my Infiniti.

So you get into that, wow. I don’t wanna take out risk wow. 10 to 1? I’ll take that risk. You know what I mean?

A hundred versus a thousand dollars.

Stephen: Yeah. Yeah. You could do it 5 more times and still Save money.

Alan: That’s a good way to look at it.

And if it would have been that I pull away and then, in a month, it’s again. It’s you really don’t know what they’re doing, and so I gave it 1 shot, and it cost me a hundred dollars to find that out. And if I philosophically, how I deal with it, of course, is it cost me a little bit of money to find [00:14:00] out, but now I know. And so it was kinda worth that investment to not wonder whether I could’ve gotten a better deal. Now I know I can or I

Stephen: can’t. Okay. So I’m gonna I told you. I’m segueing, but I got a question. Please do.

Conrads, did you go back to him after that? Did you

Alan: We did. We after they had really done well to make it right, and she had a long time relationship with Ron, and it was like, she wanted to try them again. And we have had relatively good luck. Only recently did we have once again, things were we weren’t satisfied with their service, so we’ve actually did a place called Bruce’s Automotive that is an independent that we tried, and we gave each of them each of our cars took there, and they did fine.

So maybe we’re gonna switch, but I’m not sure if they do everything that Conrad’s does and we’re it’s another experiment, another thing of let’s try capitalism. But

Stephen: overall,

Alan: concept is

Stephen: just fine. So That’s not for you. I have a situation that’s come about that I’m sure [00:15:00] you’re not aware of because you’re not in that circle. But it brings back the things we’ve talked about, what we just discussed right now.

And the issue itself to me is Just a small thing. The bigger issue connected to it is really what I have gotten a little worked up about. So let me give you the situation. And I’m going to name drop not because I’m trying to make anybody feel bad, make any or get anybody in Trouble. I’m not displaying anything that others don’t know.

This is out there. It’s so I’m just saying the names, but I know 1 of the people involved, which is why it’s a little different. So I’ve mentioned before on the show JD Barker. He’s an author.

He’s worked with Patterson. He did the podcast with my friend Jay who no longer does the podcast with him and Zach. Neither of them do the podcast for reasons of their own. I’ve met JD. I’ve talked with him.

He worked with Daker to do the Dracule thing, all [00:16:00] the Patterson stuff. Okay. So JD is a very Driven individual. He made the decision. He wanted to be a best seller, and that’s been the only thing he’s focused on.

Part of the reason he’s that way is because clear back earlier in life, he was diagnosed with Asperger’s, A form of autism. They don’t even call it Asperger’s anymore, but people will know what I’m talking about. So this is lots of people have this. We know many people that have varying levels And we’re along

Alan: the spectrum in variations on a team. Exactly.

Stephen: Okay. And he always says his superpower, 1 of the things that this Gives him that he embraced was that ability to focus single mindedly on 1 thing, exclusive to all else. That sounds great, and that is good. That achieves your goal. But the problem is there’s a lot of social inequities associated also with that type of personality.

There’s some narcissism and self centeredness associated with it, but it’s mostly because and I described my [00:17:00] father this way. That it’s like there’s a bubble, and they don’t understand and see anything that exists outside the bubble. Only the things that involve them that they’re interested in and Are the things in the bubble, and that’s all that matters. Case in point, my father my mother was a nurse. She wore her uniform her whole career, white uniform, But started to get harder to order them, so she would lay them out to dry.

Well, 1 day, she washed all her uniforms and have him lay on the couch, the chair, and all that. He came in from the garden all sweaty and stuff, sat down right on top of 1 of them. And people are like, oh my god. Did you kill him? No.

Because my mother just wouldn’t do that, though. She might’ve She should have maybe. But She shrieked a

Alan: little bit maybe when she discovered it, but

Stephen: okay. Okay. Definitely came to realize later in life, and I’ll thank Gina for helping me open my eyes to this, that my father had some form of being on the spectrum, Autism, Asperger’s, something.

And he he wasn’t

Alan: religious about those things. He just was unaware, and [00:18:00] sometimes you can’t distinguish between that easily.

Stephen: It literally is like a filter. He didn’t even see the white things because he was So focused and concentrated on his garden.

Sounds very self centered, but it’s how the brain’s wired. So I say all of that because Gina helped me realize that, and I actually understood my Father better, and I think I had a bit of a better relationship with my father because I understood his actions. And that’s You’ll talk to many people that have someone with some spectrum disorder and they you have to understand that Person. They’re not doing it to be mean, malicious, or this, that, or the other thing. But people outside of that don’t get it.

And you have that meet our Culture nowadays, and there’s problems. No matter how much we say, we’re accepting. So here’s the problem JD ran into. Okay. He’s got a new book coming out, Thriller book.

But this 1, he said, is a little racy. It’s got [00:19:00] a little more erotic type elements to it, which makes sense. He is focused on writing thrillers because that’s what sells the best. He worked with Patterson because Patterson’s the best. And what else sells?

Sex sells. That people buy you know, why do women read 3000000 harlequin and rom coms and all that? Instance. Exactly.

Yes. Now they’re they’re Suggestively racist. We know they had sex, and we don’t see it. That there’s a different types and

Alan: levels. Spectrum, if you will, also of the hardness of the existence of those kinds of things.

Exactly. Poor

Stephen: things would not be shown on Hallmark Channel.

Alan: Like that, and yet there’s nothing wrong with it depending on what when you know what you’re getting into. You don’t be it isn’t that people don’t think sex is fun.

It’s just they don’t wanna be shocked by it when they don’t in a certain place for and maybe some people really are pros and that just shouldn’t be. Like Exactly. Embrace that 7000000000 people would say yeah, it should be.

Stephen: But it’s been a part of our culture. It’s be it gets [00:20:00] used to sell how many items.

Now are we seeing naked bodies all the time on TV? No. Are we seeing more flesh than we did in the Eighties, sixties, fifth absolutely. It does change and progress. I’ll give it that.

So here’s where I’m leading up to all of this is that He wanted to advertise his new book, and he’s been trying for years to break into book talk, which is TikTok subgenre. People review books and all that. So Okay. They he created a PR firm with the sole intent of Helping JD do advertising on BookTok, but he also offers it as a service to other authors. That makes sense.

And I think He didn’t run it wholly himself, but he’s got the autistic spectrum, and He needs to do everything himself and control it, that little bit of narcissism in there. So he mostly controlled it. So What happened was[00:21:00] a thing went out to book talkers to get them to Advertise his book, and they would pay for it. That he wanted to review the content, and they would pay anywhere from a hundred to 1200 dollars Depending on what the content was and what the review was like and all that. So he was kinda paying for the review but

Alan: automatically, that raises a little bit of hackles of that doesn’t make it unbiased.

That makes it that somebody’s got a stake.

Stephen: Exactly. But he was doing it more as advertising and marketing, not so much as, oh, look at all these great reviews. It was to market the book. He had suggested on this paper I’ll say on this paper, not he.

On this paper That they sent email was suggestions for this new book, this racy thriller. 1 of them was if you’re a good looking woman, we could have the camera pan up your body, and your body’s only covered by the book. He [00:22:00] sent this got sent out To book talkers, mostly 20 ish year old young women and good looking. Kaboom. Some TikToker got ahold of this, put it out there that he’s a disgusting pervert, that he needs to be gone away, and everybody needs to take up their pitch ports and flamethrowers and attack JD and, make his life miserable.

Everybody return your books and refuse to shop at Barnes and Noble if they carry any of his books. Now only this 1 is racy. The rest aren’t. But if you care, we don’t wanna deal with and boycott and just, just all this stuff on and on that basically subtle Seasoned reaction. Exactly.

So Oh god. Okay. A lot of the authors I deal with No JD personally to 1 degree or another. I’ve sat at breakfast with the man multiple times, which is why I explained Him, before I started [00:23:00] all of this Sure. He honestly tried to apologize.

He said, woah. Woah. Woah. Hold on. Sorry.

This was a mistake. It shouldn’t have been like that. Yes. We did send that out, but it was only supposed to go to a few certain book talkers who do that type of thing anyway, and not everybody, but he subcontracted it to another PR firm Who made the mistake of sending it to their complete list of thousands of Exactly. It was always supposed to go to a couple, And nobody cared.

Nobody listened. They all attacked him anyway, told him he’s just trying to get out of it. He blah blah blah blah blah. So Okay. There’s so much to unpack with this.

There’s so many things. Was he wrong? I don’t care if he wrote it. I don’t care if he didn’t write it and didn’t send it. It was about his book.

It was about his PR firm. Ultimately, he is responsible. And I would bet he Saw it more than not. Did the PR firm maybe mess up [00:24:00] and screw it up? Yeah.

That could be a possibility, but I don’t know for sure. Do I honestly believe JD is a pervert, and that should be, like, taken to court and should be listed a sex offender, and everybody should stop buying his books and no. Because, folks, He made a mistake, and he tried to apologize for it. But it’s America, folks. You’re not allowed to make a mistake, and you are guilty until proven innocent.

Isn’t that how we are? Everybody’s perfect that attacks somebody else because that person’s in the wrong. None of these people know him, And they’re saying all this stuff about it. What if I did that to you? I could put with deep fakes, with everything else.

All you gotta do is start a rumor on Facebook That’s that book talker who attacked him originally. Oh you know what? She’s been having sex with kittens, and they found bodies in her basement. And she actually belongs to this cult worship being up in Canada. You could say all this stuff and just get [00:25:00] people to start spreading it.

And because you said it, now it’s the truth. What problems would she have? And it’d be very easy to never be able to figure out who originally said that. So So much to unpack. There’s the story.

What’s your thoughts? You might have a couple. So yeah. As

Alan: you like, we’ve already seen many incidents and talked about this a little bit, and I don’t think it’s not it’s not going to stop.

The 1 sweeping statement is I don’t think that anybody really believes in freedom of speech. They wanna be the judges of what gets censored. Yeah. And so whether it’s, red or blue, Republican, Democrat, conservative, liberal, there’s just different things that they find really objectionable. And some of them probably really are more harmful to society than others.

But finding which things are the most objectionable to you, it isn’t it’s hard [00:26:00] to separate that from the person saying it because most of those things don’t stand alone as incest is always bad. But maybe certain trigger words nowadays, they’re not incest. They’re not that sense of proportion that says this really not only is bad but shouldn’t even be allowed to exist, that’s an enormous step to take. And when I say enormous, I mean it in the classic sense of hugely evil. It isn’t just really big.

It really means what I just said. And so when I see that kind of the crusaders, it’s difficult to think of them as perfect people, and it’s difficult to have things not being judged it’s got a whole it’s used the word spectrum 10 times today. There’s a spectrum of whether something is inherently objectionable or whether it’s only objectionable in context or for various different people. And so we just had, again, not ready to comment on it except that it exists. We just had the president of Harvard resign [00:27:00] because she made a statement about whether being antisemitic was ever always bad or whether you had to know the context of it as to whether how it was being presented, if you will.

And I really do think that antisemitism is a terrible thing and a huge problem in the world and that a lot of people are so willing to embrace it. But her

Stephen: reason I’m good with Jewish. It’s just the Lithuanians that I don’t care

Alan: for. That’s you know, it’s the Portuguese. It’s the you could just fill in the blank with whoever you decide you wanna hate.

And yet, it wasn’t only what she said. It was the incredible overreaction of it. Wow. She was good enough to have risen up through the ranks and become president of Harvard, which you have to have a lot of academic credential and a lot of social skills in order to be able to have done that. But that whenever you see that kind of pack of hounds start baying about what’s gotta happen, whether it’s from the red or the blue, whether [00:28:00] it’s from 1 side or the other.

That outrage machine so quickly spins out of control. It hurts me to think of how many people that still have a lot to offer the world that they shouldn’t be automatically the pariah, the person driven from the bounds of the town because that single act it isn’t to be compared with everything else they have done in their life, everything else they’ve ever said or written or their relationships they might have with other people. It’s

Stephen: our system is They tweeted 12 years ago. We should not allow them to do anything in their life again.

Alan: Exactly.

And a little bit of what you said. When things are said in not even in confidence, but just in private. I make all kinds of jokes. And I’m sure that if

Stephen: ever my I just picked on Lithuanians because You’re Exactly. And I did it because I knew the minority.

Alan: I’m sure that I’ve said and not only now, where I pretty much am really careful about what I say. But good lord. Back when I was in college, back when [00:29:00] I was just an idiot, young, I know that I didn’t I passed along terrible jokes, whether

Stephen: it’s the name of the culture too a lot. It was Exactly.

Alan: Who what we talked about in the seventies and eighties is different 50 years later than what we talk about now. And so having said that, the the overreaction is almost, to me, certainly, worse than the initial crime I

Stephen: was going to say that.

Alan: People. And when it comes out that someone really was, oh my god. He held women captive and kill them. I it’s terrible, and I don’t think that there can be an overreaction to that. JD did not do that.

There but the fact that people now, if they so quickly go to murder and rape and arson are just as bad as I wrote a racy scene in a book. I suggested that someone do this kind of advertising. It absolutely is not. No. And the people that lack that sense of proportion, they’re being encouraged because of that [00:30:00] the baying hounds that join up with them someone has to say, it can’t be that bad.


Stephen: can’t. You can’t say it, though. You can’t step up and say anything because then you’re also attacked. You’re also canceled. That’s our problem.

We don’t respect anyone’s thoughts and opinions Unless it’s attacking somebody and getting upset. If I would go on there to defend Christine wrote something about it because she Knows him, works with him on the podcast. And I’m like, you’re a very brave woman because I imagine there’s gonna be a lot of people attacking you just because you defended him. They won’t listen to what you said, and that’s a problem. I think the book talker, like you said, is worse and more evil because did they try and get JD’s side of it?

Did they Find out any more information. Did they, discuss this any no. It was the video is an attack is oh my god. This is so horrible. And rah, people get behind it. And it’s Yeah. Have you people even read a book of his? Have you anything? And here’s [00:31:00] the other thing.

If let’s say he had 10 book talkers that he picked out, that he sent this to, Because they do that type that they read the book in bathing suits, or they do a shower thing while reciting things. If that’s how There are some out there like that. If that’s what they do and they accept it, then it’s why is it a problem? Yes. Somebody screwed up and sent it to the wrong people.

He tried to apologize for it. Why don’t we accept an apology anymore? I’ll

Alan: tell you what. The it has been around for a long time for that there really are people that are happy to say first of all, a little crazy. All sex is rape.

All sex is violence. There was a couple books about that, and you know that’s not true. But then I understand that we can’t let that have the sex predators get off the hook because make you know, they said she seemed like she was okay with it. There you have to find out the real facts

Stephen: of those situations.

And I’m so glad you’re mentioning this

Alan: too. It’s well but and [00:32:00] it’s also what’s funny is it isn’t only, if you will, the guy defending himself. There’s been a couple female comedians that have been, I think, Michelle Wolf by 1, that have actually kinda said, what if you like getting choked a little? And I that problem doesn’t exist because it’s black and white, everybody and nobody, that there really are people that make it easier or harder for people to get believed because I know that I’ve had women come on to me in a seductive and maybe even bad, naughty way, and I didn’t do anything about it. But then I’ve also heard that there’s you know, if they wanted you and you didn’t give in, then they accuse you of it anyway.

Yeah. And the accusation actually I love you, Alan. Something terrible that is how do you ever get that stain off of you? Okay. I guess the only way you can is by being a good guy all the rest of the [00:33:00] time Maybe.

Maybe. Because you’d want all your friends to not only say he didn’t do it, but to say there’s no way he would have done that. There’s no way that this is at all in line with everything else I know about him or her and it’s not only guys. It’s, of course, gals that get false accusations against them as well. And so there is something about reputation that matters and the whole life’s work that matters.

And that’s actually 1 of the automatic responses to the pack of hounds is that just doesn’t sound true. You’re you’re blowing this out of proportion. That 1 thing can’t be the most important the only important thing about this situation. It just can’t. And I think we talked about this before.

Maybe a year ago, at 1 point, I posted a joke on Facebook, and it some people didn’t like it. And so I said the joke is not about the woman getting harassed at the bar, it’s about how clumsy and what an idiot the guy doing it is so [00:34:00] that she could easily shoot him down if she wants to. And the bar barman could we asked to come to his rest to her rescue and all the things that were real world about that situation. And yet some people, they didn’t like it all that made them feel bad because they could remember how they had been in a similar situation. And part of growing up is everybody has been in bad situations and that you don’t, hopefully, let it be your trauma forever.

You do. Time heals, and more experiences let you know that it wasn’t all like that. There’s a ton of different ways in which that kinda happened. And flirting is not I want to rape you. Maybe

Stephen: it’s cold outside.

Example. It’s not a cancelable song. They were flirting. He is not rape culture.


Alan: and yet for the times, it was only that. Now nowadays, it really and as what was the other, no. You want it. That 1?

You never hear that on the radio anymore because that got a huge backlash. And so[00:35:00] having mine not given in, having said but here’s all the ways in which it is kinda funny, and it isn’t that you can’t make jokes about certain things. They just have to be funny enough and have the right the butt of the joke, they’re not making fun of this woman who’s feeling put out.

They’re making fun of the guy and how anyway and so but I know I lost friends over that. Some people like, 1 person, of course, demanded an apology, and it was like I don’t really think I have anything to apologize for. Have you read the other hundred notes going on here? And then wouldn’t give in. It’s now I’m feeling bullied.

Are you bullying me? Are you gonna be the person that you demand something from me and are gonna not gonna stop harassing me about it? And so sometimes you try to do that little I’ve turned the tables a little bit of jujitsu over. They’re adamant. They’re they’re fanaticism about having to be in the right is very off putting and not true.

And when I lost some people as friends, I honestly honest [00:36:00] was like, I guess I didn’t know them well enough. It wasn’t that they got to know me. I learned a lot about them that in any situation like that, they’re ready to throw away 5, 10, 20 years worth of friendship because they won’t listen to my explanation. They won’t listen to here’s all the ways in which maybe there’s some more to think about here. If there’s anything that they know about me, it’s that I’m a thoughtful guy.

I draw from all different kinds of experiences in life to try to keep getting to this and them giving me an absolute of it’s just not funny. It’s that’s for you. If you’re gonna phrase things in an accurate way, then you should say, I really hate this cartoon, not this cartoon has

Stephen: to cease to exist. And it was your handsets. Glasses.

Glasses. Didn’t


Alan: to take the focus away. No. No. No.

Really another thing that seems to happen is, time does heal. There’s people that were really pilloried by the public. But then when you keep seeing that they have [00:37:00] something to say and that what they say is of quality, unintelligent, empathetic. Dan Rather had a difficult time on air when it was with what’s the frequency, Kenneth. And yet, he’s now a successful columnist or whatever you wanna call, a blogger. And what he says is very well reasoned and very perceptive and very much he has a lot of command to the facts. And the fact that he’s not a news anchor anymore doesn’t mean that he still didn’t have something to contribute to the world. And there’s any number of cases that we could go into like that.

So I hope that JD, like, all of those people that are saying, stop hearing his books that a real bookstore will say we’re not because he has produced things of quality for 20 years or whatever else it might be. And maybe that 1 book we if that’s and is that book so bad that it wasn’t the book that it wasn’t the book at

Stephen: all?

Alan: His saying this, I’m gonna suggest this campaign to the people that already do these kinds of [00:38:00] interesting, funny to me, racy things again, context. And I would hope that it will just die down.

And the reason I have confidence that it will it’s because you know that pack of hounds? They’re always looking for the next scandal, the next thing that they can get outraged about, and they’ll just stop paying attention because there’s a new 1 over here. There’s more than enough going on in this

Stephen: world. He already lost his agent. His agent dropped them the same day it all erupted.

And which means he probably lost his publishing contract that he had. That’s a

Alan: huge penalty. Yeah. But you know what? There are agents and publishers nowadays that specialize in I know you really got savaged about this, but I specialize in rebuilding things.

I specialize in handling the spin in case something weird like this happens. And he’s not to everybody. It’s more of that guy who is hypersensitive. Other people will say, oh, we’ll be happy to continue to have you be successful.

Stephen: Talk about embracing diversity and understanding and that.[00:39:00]

And he has stated publicly so many times that he has Asperger’s, but nobody cared. Nobody cared to find out. The people attacking him probably don’t even know that because they’ve never read his book. They’ve never listened to the podcast. They know nothing about him, but we’re going to get him, Quote, unquote, canceled.

And okay. I got so you said a couple things that I didn’t know. I didn’t even think you would say, but I was going to bring this next thing up that’s related. And you said it, and it so brings it right into it. So I’m gonna say something that I’ve not shared with too many people or give given details at least of this.

So my First, the ex wife my first wife, when she left, she grabbed the kids, Went to a woman’s shelter and said, my husband, I’m protecting the kids. He was molesting me. He was molesting the kids. He would physically [00:40:00] abuse us, Etcetera, etcetera. And they said, oh, we’ll protect you.

They got a court order, kept me from the kids for almost 3 weeks, told the kids that I was trying to hurt them and hunt For them. And they were protecting the kids. For 3 weeks, the kids were told this, that I was evil and bad without any other context or what my ex That. She wrote a sheet that got delivered to me by the sheriff, and the sheriff even said, Do we need to take you down and question you on this? I said, you know what?

Let me call my lawyer. My lawyer called me right then and said, what the fuck? Why didn’t you tell me any of this? I said, because it’s made up. It’s untrue.

I couldn’t tell you about it because it never happened. She said I had been she took a medicine that made her fall asleep. And she said that when that happened, I would rape her every night while she was sleeping. I had been sleeping on the couch for 9 months. The door to the bedroom has a lock in it.

She talked to her sister [00:41:00] every single day, and her sister never heard about any of this. She left to go to school at Akron 3 and 4 times a week alone by herself out of my, Yeah. It was sphere of influence. Sure. Never once told anybody at the school, never once went to security, never once went to The police station to do a rape kit never went to the told anything to the doctor.

She had 2 or 3 doctor appointments in that time. Never said anything until this moment evidence. At the court. The court immediately, though, said you’re not allowed to have the kids. We’re going to you’re going, blah blah blah.

They treated it as if it was true and real. And until we got into court And blew all the holes in it, and the judge said, this is all a falsified lie, and we’re not even going to consider it. And asked her lawyer, do you wanna contest that? He says, no, Judge, I don’t wanna contest that. But think what my life would have been like if they would have just kept [00:42:00] listening to it.

And when I got that paper I

Alan: think what it was like just because they listened. And it said you didn’t have access to your children. You already paid a huge penalty over something totally made up. Yes. And I don’t know what penalty she paid for

Stephen: the That’s what I’m getting to.

That’s what I’m perjury of that.

Alan: She sold her name on. It was total.

Stephen: Oh, man. So I’ve dealt and people don’t understand this.

Because of those issues in that divorce, it was 8 Years of battling, going to court every month or 2. And I had to refile multiple times to take her to court. She wasn’t doing anything she was supposed to and causing problems. They hardly ever listened to me or anything.

But that particular issue, nothing ever came of it. There was no consequences to her. They just dismissed it. And I took but she kept telling people, oh, it’s true. I took that paper.

I was in boy scouts. I was in girl scouts. I was in martial arts. I was softball, baseball coach. I took that paper, [00:43:00] Got the committees, got the boards, got the leaders, took them all aside and said, okay.

Here’s the situation. My ex wife just said this. We’ve said in court that proof is that it’s made up, that she had any chance to get rid of this at all. Is there a single person here That wants to discuss this, that believes it, that thinks it’s true, that has a problem with it. And I went flat out to all these people and said, anyone right now say it.

Because if Nobody says anything right now. It will never be spoken of again, and I don’t wanna hear about it behind my back no matter what. Nobody that I know and work with had a problem and believe But think how that could have been. I could have been in jail. I could have never seen my kids.

I could have had to quit all those activities Because of her lie, and there was no consequences to her. So it goes back to this book talker. There’s no consequences for her. And, again, She doesn’t know necessarily the whole story. Yeah.

And this is why I had and [00:44:00] still deal with sometimes the PTSD, Why it’s so hard for me to even though I you know, me and Gina were together and that we had issues. We had problems, and some of it was fine. Years later. Exactly. Yeah.

And it’s still with me. People have asked you go date again. I’m like, hell no. I can’t handle that. I’ve got my own Whatever on the spectrum in certain areas.

And my brain cannot handle the thought of a relationship because I can’t trust a relationship. How can could I ever trust somebody? And I that was part of the problem with me and Gina. And I admit that, But what do I do about it?

Nothing. And it was and okay. So here’s the thing that even to add to that. So she was going to school this whole time. Told the judge she was at school.

I have an email That she sent to 1 of her lovers talking about their sex they had the night before while she was supposed to be at school, and I was watching the kids. It’s dated. It’s explicit. The [00:45:00] judge didn’t wanna see your care. Her church didn’t wanna see your care, and they helped pay for her lawyer.

They paid for her food. They paid for her rent. Her sister didn’t wanna see and care. Nobody wanted to see in this, and it’s A hundred percent proof. She’s completely lied, and she was cheating on me.

It didn’t matter at all, but I was still in more trouble by her lies. And that’s why this whole book talk thing, JD may have been completely wrong, and I may completely disagree with doing that. I do middle grade books. I don’t think I’m ever gonna ask anybody to be nude while they advertise my middle grade

Alan: books.

Stephen: Exactly.

It doesn’t work. But I may not agree with any of that, but I truly think all these people are way more wrong than he was. So there you go.

Alan: I honestly, a worthwhile rant. That it’s kinda funny.

And we all I often say, so to relate that to relentless geekery there really are people that they don’t I think I’m pretty empathic, and I [00:46:00] really do pay attention to people and so forth. But I know that I’m, for instance, not great at maintaining friendships with everyone at whatever level is appropriate based on time and distance and etcetera. And so maybe that’s a little bit of how I’m on the spectrum that I do get interested in things, really focus on them because that is 1 of my superpowers is that focus that you can bring to something to make breakthroughs. And luckily, most people I kinda can be in my office or at the water cooler, and they give me time to do both.

But in a relationship, I know that I had discussions with past the people and still with Colleen about how I am, why I am how I am, and that sometimes the explanation is the truth. They just don’t like it. They just don’t wanna believe it or like it or and sometimes it was a little bit of perhaps, narcissism on their part that but even that, why wasn’t enough to [00:47:00] break through that? And it’s I didn’t really see it as tension. I just thought it was you know the healthy relationship book say that each person needs their space.

And so when I go and do this thing, when I wanna go play poker with the boys, it isn’t at your expense. It isn’t I don’t love you anymore. That overreaction in a small way, I still had to contend with even though they were, 80 percent pretty decent, rational people. They weren’t really but I also know that when things go bad, people do terrible things.

They will have advice from their friends about, this is your chance to get him. You know what I mean? And sadly, for she who must not be named in those particular friends, I

Stephen: That’s funny when you started to say that because that’s exactly how I refer to my exes. And you said it, and I the first time, and I had to laugh.

Alan: It just was a little bit not only enlightening about her, but about, wow, I kinda thought that they were both of our friends, but I guess not.

[00:48:00] And so then he just kinda and move on. I don’t have revenge about I don’t care. I don’t you know? My here’s my ego talking. You know what’s 1 of the worst things that can happen to them is that they don’t have me in their life anymore.

I am a pretty fun, decent, generous, interesting. I’m a I’m an addition to most situations all the time. And to have them not have me in their life for the rest of their life, I guess they made their choice. They don’t get to have my generosity and my happiness and whatever else it might be. And so I’ve been sad about losing some people that I had misread in that way, but, wow, they made their choice.

I’m gonna go try to convince them otherwise. You know what I mean? It’s a sad situation to be in. I think that Colleen really understands me well without having to understand all of me that she makes room for. Not sure why he does that, and yet it’s okay.

He’s not hurting anybody doing that. He’s not hurting me because she wants some alone time too. [00:49:00] They often talk about this. It isn’t finding someone who’s a match is finding the person that can negotiate where there isn’t a match or just be okay about it, that there’s no expectation of you have to be in lockstep all

Stephen: the time. I think the expectation things.

Yeah. Is the biggest killer sometimes. And understanding, What you know? Yeah. Everybody tries to say it’s what the other person needs, but here’s the and here’s the unfortunate thing.

If you know anyone that’s really strong on the spectrum, way on the autistic side, many factors on that. There’s certain traits and they you know, that type of person, it’s very difficult to have a relationship because, like my father, it’s all in the bubble. If he hadn’t met my mother, he probably would never got married. She’s you know, he did everything he always wanted. And that There’s problems with that, and it’s got its own set of this is not a good thing and all that.

And she’s kinda got that now. She’s lived [00:50:00] with that for so long. Now that he’s gone, she doesn’t know what to do with her life. She doesn’t know how to be herself. She doesn’t know how to do things on her own.

And me and Colin have been noticing this more and more. She freaks out about some of the littlest things. It’s, it’s a major disaster of the day if we’re not going to be home for supper. It’s like it’s not that big a deal. But, what are you gonna have? It’s And it’s wow. Chill.

Alan: I guess there’s a like, many cultures have the saying, for every bot has a lid that it isn’t a matter of whether these things are right and wrong of themselves. It’s what everybody is looking for in their relationship.

I know I’ve heard I really love stand up comics, I think that 1 of the things they do is tell a lot of truth. I’ll hear more truth in an hour of their act than I will hear in the whole week of supposed news. 1 of the things that multiple stand up comics have said, both male and female, is they don’t mind having a boyfriend, girlfriend, or a husband that’s on the spectrum because 1 of the things that people often do on the [00:51:00] spectrum is they just tell the truth. There’s no nuance. There’s no I’m gonna pick amongst the available explanations.

They just say what’s on their mind often. And some people, they can’t handle that bluntness because it can be hurtful. But to other people, if they’ve had game playing all their life up until then, that they’ve had a whole bunch the snakes in their lives, they just love the fact that when their husband or wife says something, it’s real. That it’s it’s really how they think and feel. And that’s so you have to find someone that will take the occasional ding of if I ask you how I look and you tell me and it isn’t always flattering, I’d rather that then, are you having an affair, and then the lies start.


Stephen: And if you’re gonna be on the road for 3 months Straight with only getting home 1 or 2 times. Especially in that topic. Somebody with autism probably loves that because they don’t it is very difficult.

The higher you are on the spectrum, it becomes much more difficult to people, to adult. It becomes draining. I’m very INTJ, and there are [00:52:00] times Even at RGs. I love going to RGs.

I love seeing people. I love spending time with people. But a lot of times at the end of the weekend, I am so drained. I don’t even wanna Talk to people. I don’t want anyone around me for a couple days because it is difficult to do that.

And I know some people even higher on the spectrum than me, A lot of people, much more autistic in that bubble that to do a whole weekend RG With so many people and converse and interact would make their brain explode. They just can’t handle that. So having somebody on the road that you only see 1 or days a month might be a perfect situation for some people.

Alan: Exactly. I’ve we’ve talked about this.

I share that thing too. I have a great time at the Mensa Regional Gatherings and my comic book conventions, and I really am just I love talking to people and hearing all their thing all of it. But then when I get home, I’m a lot of my energy is used up. A lot of my brain juice that goes into really listening to conversations and really being interactive and [00:53:00] being witty and being friendly, it I don’t dislike it. I love it, and yet it uses energy from me.

And when I get home, oftentimes, those are the days I think I’m gonna listen to my own music and work on spreadsheets of what magazine subscriptions I have and all those things that are, like, very I don’t know, detail oriented, and I can fall into them

Stephen: and get them Check it off.

Alan: And Yeah. But that’s maybe not that much. I’ll say a nice thing on Facebook hey. That was a great gathering.

Great seeing everybody again. And then I kinda go away for a day because I am not the usual commenting on, oh, I like that album too or whatever else is and it

Stephen: doesn’t mean you care any less for Colleen or anything like that. That’s exactly right. And I so I think well, you were just saying something. I think we should change the term stand up comic because it’s not inclusive. What’s a person in a wheelchair? They’re not allowed to be a up comic because they’re in a

Alan: wheelchair. Vonseca, various others.

Exactly. I yeah. That’s that obviously, that’s a descriptor instead of an absolute. Know what I mean? There you go.

To what they’re doing. I always think isn’t that [00:54:00] 1 of the bravest things knowing that public speaking is what it’s like people’s top 10 things, sometimes worse than death, someone that’s willing to go up there with a stand and a microphone and be that for 10000 people, 200 people for that matter, it really is an act of incredible bravery. And I don’t know. I most people can’t do it. They can’t.

You know what I mean? It’s

Stephen: so funny you mentioned that because 1 of the things I didn’t realize about myself or others and blah blah blah, And I started to realize this through the past year couple years. I it is much more difficult and scary and Very hard for me to do is to sit down at a table with 10 people I only partially know and converse with them. If we’re playing a game, I can do that because the focus is on the game. But when the focus is on human interaction and it’s people I don’t know that well, it’s a small group.

Even sometimes people I know, it gets hard. But you know what? If you said, hey. You [00:55:00] know this topic. We’ve got 10000 people.

What can you go talk on it? Sure. No problem. I’ll do that. That doesn’t scare me, and I have no problem with that at all.

But you tell me, hey. We got 5 people. You wanna sit down and talk to them? No. Not really.

That’s just I’ve come to realize that about myself and why. That’s the important thing. Before, I always thought what is wrong with you? Why are you the blah blah blah? Now I understand it a little better.

And now it’s easier for me to, deal with it.

Alan: I’m actually good with both of those things. We and I really do sitting down with all the people that I don’t know and just listening and asking questions and throwing the occasional bon motte out there. You know what I mean? A little bit of wit and just I really like that, and I really it’s very heartening then when you see somebody, I don’t know, a year later sometimes and because I have a really good memory to be able to say, aren’t you the guy that really Sherlock Holmes or whatever else it might be and just see their face light up, that we had made a connection, that there had been some penetration, that it wasn’t just kinda the ship’s drifting past each other.

So but even then, I know that’s 1 of those things that [00:56:00] does take energy from me. And then occasionally, it’s okay. I’ve done a whole bunch of socializing. I think I’m gonna go do a jigsaw puzzle. You know what I mean?

Where people are mostly quiet, and the people that are there our jigsaw puzzle people. And so and if anything, if you try to have a conversation, you can tell that’s not why they’re there either. They really just wanna kinda play with shapes and stuff like that. I actually I’m sorry.

No. Just a quick thing. Solar eclipse coming. Yes. We’re at an event here in Cleveland that we’re gonna have people get together over at out at our cool farm in Norwalk, but couldn’t put together a big event because hotel prices went ridiculous and etcetera.

But somebody down in Cincinnati, Mary Lee, has a really good relationship with a particular double tree down there that she was able to find for that weekend, hotel rooms at a reasonable price. So we’re driving down to do 2 days, Saturday and Sunday and then coming back up here and doing the Monday thing. And I thought it was gonna be like, let’s get together and play games. And she said we’re gonna have a couple speakers. Would you like to speak?

And [00:57:00] what you just said you know what? So what’s going on? Solar eclipse. I could talk about all the comic book characters that are solar powered or that our moon base for that. There’s even a villain called Eclipso that I’d be able to tell you all about his career.

There was a whole summer of annuals, as I recall, from DC where it was all of, heroes being turned to the dark side, if you will and stuff like that. So it’s just it’s so I like doing that. I like sharing this. I love this. I have this passion for this, and I love being able to say, kind of folks aren’t just Richie Rich.

Here’s all the cool ways in which they’ve talked about what’s the difference between the red and the yellow sun, and why would that matter to, Superman versus Mon El. You know what I mean? That or, that kind I just I already am like, immediately upon saying yes, I started taking notes as the I wanna mention moon dragon. I wanna mention moon night. All that stuff.

It’s a silly thing, but it gives me satisfaction and most of the people that come to my talks, I’ve heard a number of times, I really don’t care what he’s talking about. I [00:58:00] wanna hear him talk. He’s a really good speaker. The thing you said about I love having that feeling in the room of everybody there is my friend. Many medicines know me.

And if they don’t, they’re not only once in a while, and we’ve laughed about this, have I had the jerk, anyone who heckles

Stephen: and that kind of stuff. And you’re very good at handling that. I You are. Thank

Alan: you. I’ve I’ve only had to learn that.

We’ve I may be back in debate when I knew it was gonna be antagonistic, and it still shocks me a little bit to have that happen. But when you know that 80 percent of the people in the room are your friends, it isn’t, hey, everybody. Let’s get them. It’s more like you can count on being a little witty and teasy, but not letting him take over the talk because they’re there to be with me, to be all of us together. You know what I mean?

So that’s a lot of what emboldens me to handle heckler as well is, am I gonna let this spoil this listening for everyone? No. I’m I’m the 1 in charge of not letting him spoil it. Let’s do that.

Stephen: And people are here to hear you talk, not somebody trying to, derail the whole thing and argue

Alan: Exactly. And what’s going on about that? Let’s get back [00:59:00] to this stuff because I have a lot of material to get through. You know what I mean? And then if they keep interrupting, it’s Alright, everybody.

What do you think?

Stephen: Yeah. I thought we’d do that. Get through.

Alan: Yeah.

You know what I mean? And most of the time, people will say, yes. Maybe you should relax with whatever particular issue, you can’t get out of your craw there. Mister sir.

And it’s been a guy and a gal, different times. You know what I mean? I’ve had both, so

Stephen: oh, that’s actually another trait, someone who’s high on the spectrum in some way, somewhere. That’s another thing is that this is my thought.

It’s the only 1 right, and you’re wrong, and I have got to it’s not always just a hole. It’s sometimes that they honestly just can’t think about anything else, and that’s, a problem. Yeah. I get it. Yeah.

Alan: But maybe a little bit what we just talked about, the people that are crusaders like that, I know that I’ve heard important talks interrupted by someone saying, Do you think that they recycle here at this conference? And it’s so that’s your single issue. You know what I mean? We know that the world is filled with [01:00:00] single issue candidates. You know what I mean?

That it doesn’t matter anything about

Stephen: economy, ecology,

Alan: education. It matters how what their stand is on abortion. And for some people, it doesn’t matter anything except that either. And so that’s a spectrum type thing. Really, of all the world, that’s the only thing that matter.

It’s not. The world is a big, wonderful, complex, messy place. And for you to try to narrow it down to 1 clear black and white dividing line, I’ve just learned so much about you that you’re incapable of handling the complexity of the world, and you can’t be trusted to make judgments in that regard. You know what I mean? You’re not the 1 that should be deciding what’s taught in schools or where we spend our money or you’re not.

You’re not that person. Someone has to have a much wider, broader look at the world to say all these things matter. They all matter in different degrees Yeah. Not only your thing, no matter how loud you yell, no matter how many other problems

Stephen: Alright. So before we go, because it’s we ran longer than I thought we were going to [01:01:00] on some of that.

So sorry. So there are so many good concerts coming. Oh my god. So so here’s the ones that I am not got tickets yet. Okay.

Booty and the Blowfish are coming at the Blossom.

Alan: See them. That’d

Stephen: be great. And Train with REO Speedwagon is coming. And Train’s the headliner?

Yes. 0. 0. 0, I don’t they’re more modern. They’ve been relevant more that is

Alan: a good double bill.

Exactly. I know. Wasn’t there 1 with Please go on. You’re fine. I’m all No.

No. No. I No. Another there’s a couple of double or triple bills where it was like sticks and cheap trick or foreigner and cheap trick. Wait.

Wait. Maybe even 3 bills.

Stephen: Cheap Trick, Heart Steve Miller Band opening for Def Leppard and,

Alan: journey. That’s a great day of music right there. That’s I’m sorry if I haven’t already gotten tickets because I don’t wanna see that from Milan.

I really wanna see it, but it might be that

Stephen: one’s at [01:02:00] Progressive.

Alan: Oh, okay. So it’s a stadium. Okay. Very good.

I depending on day and date, we do have some travel plan and stuff like that, but, absolutely, I’d wanna see that. That’s back that’s hearkening back to the old in Chicago, they called them the World Series of Rock or the Super they’d have 5 bands on the bill, and you’d work your way through Emerson Lincoln Palmer and Fog Hat and Santana. It’s Wow. That’s a lot of great music and Steve Miller.


Stephen: that Colin already said, we’re taking the day off. We’re showing up in the morning. We’ll sit around all day just so we’re not in a big line or whatever.

Alan: Exactly that. My biggest mistake for some of those was I didn’t know about sunscreen enough. And I was baking on the astroturf at Soldier Field in Chicago. Honestly, I 1 of those things where have we talk about this, I took my shoes off, and I couldn’t relace my shoes because the tops of my feet were sunburned, and it hurt like the devil. And so I have some tough memories of how stupid I was when I was young that set the stage for the melanoma that I had to fight off 15 [01:03:00] years ago Yeah.

Because I know I was stupid. I’m just so stupid.

Stephen: So speaking of this weekend, I am going to Northfield Park to see Extreme with Living Color opening for them. I think

Alan: I mentioned, I drove to Detroit to see them when they first announced that tour. And so I’m just gonna look at my calendar real quick because if I have anything going on, is it Saturday

Stephen: or Friday night?

It’s Saturday night. And I’ll tell you, I was gonna tell you, I didn’t know what you were doing that day because I could drive up earlier. I still gotta get you your Christmas presents. We can meet up at, the library or somewhere to give you your presents. We’ll have another lunch.

Alan: We’ll have a quarterly lunch or something like that. I am unfortunately, Calene’s family has a brother and sister dinner that exact night, so I really can’t join you. But I will say this, oh, man. You’re gonna love this show. Oh, I can’t wait.

They really they’re both in fine form. They haven’t lost a step. The Corey Glover and the main people from each of the bands live in color. It’s not only Cult of Personality, which is 1 of the best rock songs [01:04:00] that’s in your neighborhood. They have half a dozen hits that I was happy to hear every 1 of them.

And then extreme are amazing. Again, both Yeah. It’s the whole band, but the vocalist and the guitarist, Nuno Betancourt really up there took in my mind with every great guitarist you can name with, Eddie Van Halen with Steve Howard, he’s just amazing Yep. And has is having such a great time playing. He’s just so happy to whenever they went to the wilderness for a while, and then they’ve made a big comeback.

And I just hope you have a great time because I’m

Stephen: sure I will. I’m going with my buddy Jay, and Colin’s come in. That’d be a great thing. And, yeah Pride and Time’s Up are such great albums from Livingstone. That.

In Extreme, I actually have grown to like their newest album as my favorite of all their albums.

Alan: It really is a great 1. I actually like Horn of Graffiti, I must admit. That’s a perfect album. There’s not a bad cut on there at all.

Yeah. And it has not only the crazy hard rock, but they really became known for a couple of MTV things that were, like, [01:05:00] soft rock, wholehearted and stuff like that. So they really are capable of that. But, man, when they jam, I just we I 1 of the topics that we didn’t get to but that I mentioned what are some of the great openings ever for a rock song?

And sometimes it’s a wonderful build like Alaska from UK or something like that. Man, when you get to hear cult of personality and the first thing is Right. It’s like everybody in the whole audience is immediately on their feet and moving. Yeah. I just I oh, man.

Oh, I wonder if I can call in sick to the other dinner. I

Stephen: need to go Did you just see them at Christmas and Thanksgiving? It’s a little too soon. You don’t wanna you know, what’s that thing about fish? That’s

Alan: What I need to do is make an excuse, colleague. She’ll make excuses for me. And then once they’re already over at the place, sneak out and drive home.

Stephen: Oh, it’s exactly Where’s Alan? Oh, he had to run to store to get some milk.

He’ll be back in 3 hours.

Alan: You know what’s funny? I hardly [01:06:00] ever go see the same show twice because I really I get so much out of a show and but I remember I saw Peter Gabriel 2 nights in a row. From Champaign Urbana, I drove to normal Bloomington, and then I drove to Chicago because he was, like, right during that, let’s see. The rhythm of the heat and Shock the Monkey, there’s a great album.

Oh my at anyway, that only certain bands have gotten to where I was, like, little bit of a cult follower for a while, and I saw as many shows as I could see in the area. You know what I mean? Give me the review next Tuesday. I hope you love it because I was so happy.


Stephen: sure I will. And then next week Bob Marley movie comes out. So I decided to

Alan: Exactly. We Colleen and I have all kinds like, let it get cold. We got all kinds of great movies.

We just looked at all the Oscar nominees, and it was like, we’ve already seen 4 of them. We’ll see the next 10. We just we watched the killers of the flower moon and had to do it in 2 segments. It’s a long movie 3 hours and 20. Yeah.

And just we were done for the night. And it’s complex enough that you don’t wanna start missing things because you’re kinda blurry. So [01:07:00] it all kinds of other we saw poor things as I’m looking forward to the Oscar shorts, which comes out mid February, and looking forward to the Banff Mountain Film Festival, which usually is April.

We already got we got a whole bunch of stuff that every year we enjoy it and actively look for it. You know what I mean? It’s gonna be a great year. So Great. Okay.

Alright. Good. Take care. Thanks, David.